Raj Girn: Hi everyone and welcome to another exciting edition of ‘The Transform Your Confidence Show.’

My guest for today is Amy Eliza Wong, and she is the founder of the aptly entitled brand Always on Purpose. Here’s a little bit about her before we say hello. As a certified executive leadership coach, author, speaker and facilitator, her client base includes Airbnb, Salesforce, LinkedIn, Facebook and Stanford University, among many others, Amy offers transformative leadership, development and cutting edge communication strategies to executives and corporate teams around the world, and has just released a book entitled ‘Living on Purpose. Staying on Brand.’

Here is our conversation:

Raj Girn: Please welcome to the show the fabulous Amy. Super happy to have you on, sweetheart.

Amy Eliza Wong: Hi, it’s such a pleasure to be here today. I am so delighted. Thank you so much.

Oh, my gosh. Well, not as delighted as me and everyone else is going to be. We went through all of the nuggets of wisdom that we’re going to be chatting about over the next little while. So I want to just dive right in.

Amy, I want to do what I always do. I want to start at the beginning by giving everyone that’s watching or listening and reading this an insight into your professional background pre the launch of your company and any elements from your personal life that lends to why you decided to launch this brand. And if there’s anything that you feel encapsulates why it’s important to put yourself out there because I feel that a lot of people are still scared to do that.

You know, like they have this great idea, this great concept, they’ve done all the research, and they’re scared to put it out there. And I feel that that will lend a little bit into just the communications strategy and prowess that you bring to the table. So let’s start because that sounds like a huge question.

It’s like so much goodness.

And so much to unpack. And I haven’t even had my caffeine, so thank God I didn’t otherwise I would be going in all kinds of directions. So let’s first start with the preface pre launch of your brand. Talk to me a little bit about your life and what brought you to that precipice.

So currently, I’m a leadership coach and I’ve been doing this for over a decade. And interestingly, now that I’m at this stage in my life, I look back and I recognize that I was really, truly, in essence, a coach and I’ve been doing this far longer than I had had realized. But where this all started was as a kid, I was very fascinated with all things consciousness and existence. And I was enthralled by the bigger conversations, like, who are we? What’s going on here? Why do we exist?

And my mom and my grandma were really quite metaphysical. And I have such amazing, wonderful, delicious memories of being quite young and sitting at the kitchen table together, talking about how the mind creates and energy and just consciousness in general. And so that’s always been with me. And I remember I was reading Krishnamurti and Wayne Dyer as early as fifth and sixth grade. So very fascinated by all of these things. And it really just lit me up.

I found my happy place in math and I’m also a musician and I’ve been playing piano since age four. So they go hand in hand. And through high school and college, I was so passionate about both math and music. And I taught both. So I was teaching math and I was teaching music or piano to students and I loved it so much. And it was the transmission of the content. But really what I realized, and I started to pick up on this later on in high school and definitely in college, I was fascinated by how people were perceiving the content at hand. And I was really good at listening and being able to identify listening for what it was that people didn’t know, what my students didn’t know. What they didn’t know that kept them stuck. And I could hear it in their logic. I could hear it in their argument, in their body language. The things that hold us back, it’s not the stuff we don’t know. It’s the stuff we don’t know that we don’t know. And so I got really good at using math and music as a way to hone.

“The things that hold us back, it’s not the stuff we don’t know. It’s the stuff we don’t know that we don’t know.” ~Amy Eliza Wong

And I didn’t realize this. Hone a skill to be able to access that and then present it to someone so that they could derive their unknowns for themselves. And then it helped usher that path forward. So in college, I continued to teach math. So I majored in math at Berklee and taught there as well and ended up at Sun Microsystems. So I ended up in tech. So the first part of my life, which I started interning when I was 18, almost 19, and stayed there till the birth of my first child, who is now going to be 14 next week.

I love that.

I know, right?

Do you guys have a boy or a girl?

My oldest is a boy.

So you’re going to be good. Boys are easier during teenage years. So they tell me.

I’m finding it’s been delightful so far, because I have to say, he knows he’s a butthead and he knows exactly what he’s doing. And he’s like “I’m 14, give me that.” And I’m like, “All right, all right. You can just be a guy that right now.”

Because we were too. Don’t forget when we grew up. Right?

That’s right. I remember being 14. It’s just not easy. So all of this is to say, like there’s just been this incredible becoming, which I didn’t realize at that stage when I was in tech. And I really loved working there and I ended up in various roles and I got to exercise many different skill sets. And I would always end up in these positions where I was the go between, between development and end user translating what was happening.

And so that’s when I found this whole thing around communication fascinating because this is where everything’s happening and I really got my chops around that ability to translate. And so then after Aiden was born, I had this massive breakdown, breakthrough experience. And it was really quite spiritual because it hit me so hard that I was not honouring all that I was. And I really wasn’t awake to what I was here to do. And it was for no reason other than I just wasn’t awake to it. But it hit me and I was really forced to confront who the heck I was. And I explain this in my book because I think all of us go through these experiences where we have to confront the truth about ourselves.

But we’re not taught those tools. Like, what do I do when I confront something that I’m not prepared to deal with? So in that wake up moment, I realized. And going back to what we’re going to talk about, one of the ways that we live on purpose, what hit me in what I reference as a divine download, because I don’t know what else to call it. It’s just it was so profound. It would hit me, “Oh, my gosh, Amy, you’ve been going about this whole life thing all wrong. It’s not about figuring it out. It’s about feeling it out.”

“It would hit me was, ‘Oh, my gosh, Amy, you’ve been going about this whole life thing all wrong. It’s not about figuring it out. It’s about feeling it out.'” ~Amy Eliza Wong

Oh, my God. Can you say that again?

It’s so powerful because there’s so much. And it’s not that sort of cliche, feel it out. It’s not that. There’s so much to the statement, which it’s not about figuring it out. It’s about feeling it out.

And how did you figure that out? Oh, my God. I got to ask you.

So this is where it’s profound. So this is where I was. It was a dark night. I had Aidan. He’s a couple months old. I don’t want to go back. But it’s not because I want to be a stay at home mom. I know I’m not meant to go back to my job in my my job at Sun. It was amazing. I loved it. I was on the up and up. Life was perfect on paper. And I had no good reason for not being able to go back. I had no words for it. And so I was in a crisis of identity because I knew I was a mom now, which was the biggest gift on the face of this earth. And I was so blessed and I was so happy.

And so I had this weird experience going on where I was buoyed by the this wonder and gratitude. But I’m also just lost because of my who am I? And so one moment I had come home. I had just told my beloved boss, who I actually write about in my book. She’s amazing. She’s still amazing, still love her. And I told her I’m not coming back. And when I got home my husband has the infant Aidan. I go up to my closet, and I just I had this moment where I’m like, I give up, and I literally just I threw my hands to the side and I looked up to the ceiling, and I’m in my closet and I’m like, I give up. You show me the way.

Now, here’s what’s interesting. I don’t know who I was talking to because it’s not like I prayed to something. But it was this profound surrender moment. And I was immediately answered with this. It was almost like an electric shock that hit my head and every cell of my being reverberated with that, what I just said. It’s not about figuring it out. It’s about feeling it out. And in that moment, it’s like someone ripped the veil from my perception. And I saw clearly. And everything from that moment has. It was complete transformation in one moment.

Yeah. Your angels, your guides. The higher version of you. Or any or all of the above. But isn’t it interesting you said something that’s so important and that is having the courage to action. You know what you don’t know that you’re stepping into and then asking for the light at the beginning of that tunnel. Not at the end. At the beginning of that tunnel.

Yeah, that’s exactly right. Oh, my gosh. And you couldn’t frame up. Really kind of where this went. Because in that statement, it’s not about figuring it out. It’s about feeling out. It’s really about following the feeling. Now, what does that mean and what and what are the implications? Well, everything we want, right? Everything, whether it’s to be a big an amazing podcast host or to make lots of money or to, you know, retire early. Everything we want, we want it not for the thing, but we want it because we think it’s going to make us feel a certain way. So what we really want is a feeling. But we don’t really think about it that way.

“Everything we want, we want it not for the thing, but we want it because we think it’s going to make us feel a certain way. So what we really want is a feeling. But we don’t really think about it that way.” ~Amy Eliza Wong

Oh, my God. I love, you know, I love everything that you just finished talking about. It’s it begs so many directions for me, but I’m going to I’m going to stay on point because I just want to make sure that understand the value of what you’ve come up with. Yeah. And the value of the book. So let’s let me stay there before I end up going into Rod’s directions, which we’re not going to do.

Okay.

Absolutely. You know, I guess instinctually my my next question for you would be like, what about the concept of always on purpose? Oh, like, clearly, this is this is where we’re going.

Oh my Gosh. So this is such a magical story. I mean, it almost is almost not believable because it’s so delightful. So after that divine download, I was changed in a moment and what what came next was okay. So if then everything I’m after is a feeling, then I have to follow my feelings. So what is it that I’m following? Okay, so what I’m following then is this feeling of. Oh. That feeling where I feel like it’s an expansive. That feeling where you’re like, you get that breath knocked into you, not out of you, but like that feeling.

So I have to commit to following that where like, my eyebrows raise and my heart feels big and my chest goes out and I’m expansive where it’s the feeling of inspiration. I have to act only on that. And if and if something comes my way and it feels heavy, if it feels constricted, if it feels like I’m figuring it out like this is a good idea, I think I like the strategy. This makes sense. No, I’m not going to do that because that’s figuring I’ve got to follow the feeling. The moment I did that, the path became so clear. And so it was at this moment. So I’ve got this infinite.

And so what I what illuminated immediately was, oh, my gosh, you love all things quantum physics. You love all things consciousness studies like. Right. And I haven’t been reading these books in years because I was too busy with work. So I picked up a lot of the physicists that I loved and I picked up. So I just started voraciously reading and I am like on cloud nine and I’m feeling amazing and I’m, you know, and I’m just I’m buoyed by the by that just being reinvigorated by the content that I love. So check this out.

So now I’m like, okay, so the trick is the path of least resistance to the path of most abundance is to follow the inspiration. So it’s when I get that, I’m going to trust that it’s guiding me somewhere amazing, even if it doesn’t make sense. And that’s the big key, because there’s so much more going on here. So I have to trust that when I feel this, it’s actually guiding me somewhere.

So I’m in, I’m you know, I’m sitting in, I’m reading a book by a physicist that I really like and Aiden’s napping. And out of the blue rush I’m reading this, and then it hits me and I’m like, you know, I know nothing about this guy as a human. I just know, like, his work. I wonder, huh? I don’t look him up, so I literally stop mid passage, pull up my laptop and I’m like, Oh, he lives in Cambridge. Oh, an event section. Interesting. So I click on event section and I scroll and I kid you not. That evening he is speaking at the Unitarian Church, literally a couple blocks from our house in San Francisco.

Oh, my gosh.

And I’m like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. And so like that, right. There was this incredible affirmation that, wait, Amy, you’re on to something. This is what it means to follow the path of least resistance. Okay, so I’m looking at this. I’m like, like, oh, well. So I scroll down a little more and then I see he’s speaking in San Rafael, which isn’t far from where I live at the Science and Non Duality Conference like in the next couple of months. And I’m like, Oh my God. So I get that feeling again. So that’s what I committed to following was that that feeling like, Oh, and so I’m like, What is this conference? So I look the conference up and I’m, I’m reading through it and I get that feeling and I’m thinking, Oh my gosh, I have to be here.

But then I’m like, Wait, but am I the audience? I mean, it looks like there’s a ton of scientists and a ton of researchers and a ton of therapists. And I’m like, I’m not any of those. So I’m like, Maybe I’m not the right audience. So then I email the organizer, the founder of the conference, and I’m like, So hi. You don’t know me, but I’m a new mom. I stumbled upon your comments. I’m just curious. Am I your audience? I’m super enthralled by this.

He got right back to me. His name is Mauricio Binotto. Beautiful man. Him and his wife, they now have the big science and on duality conference. He emailed me right back. Oh, my gosh. Of course. You know what? Let me comp your ticket. I want you to be my special guest. Bring your baby. This. I was so honored and touched. But anyway, so I went and that’s where the Cascades started. So then I went there and then the people I met and then the subjects, that feeling. And so it was so quick that all of a sudden the path just illuminated.

I kept following that feeling and then all of a sudden transpersonal psychology kept popping up. Oh, that feeling. Oh, wait, what is this? And I go, I got to study this. And so next thing I know, I’m getting my master’s in transpersonal psychology. And now next thing I know, coaching. What’s this? I had no idea about this field. Well, little bit I know that math and transpersonal psychology together lend itself perfectly for coaching. Right? And so it’s do Do, do, do, do, do.

So that is really how it very, very quickly but very organically emerged by following the inspiration, following the feeling, not by following a strategy. Because if I were to have told anybody what I was up to from, you know, from my past life, you know, son, they would have been like, what are you smoking? What you doing? You know? And thank goodness I have an amazing husband who just trusts me completely. And he’s like, You know what? I got 100%, I support you. Yes. Do it. Okay. I don’t get what you’re going to study and I don’t get that you’re not licensed or anything, but whatever. Like if that’s what you want to do, trust me, it’s going to work out.

And it did. But the name all but so the concept of always on purpose again it was one of those magical synchronistic. Oh, it hit me. That’s it, you know. And it’s and I feel like kind of my my trajectory has been a series of these amazing, synchronistic moments that feel almost unbelievable. But it’s not unbelievable when you truly commit to following that feeling, which is hard because we have been trained all of the formula, do what you’re told, make people happy, make lots of money, and then you’ll be happy. And then it’s it, but it doesn’t work that way. So it’s been so that’s really where always on purpose. So that happened in 2010 and again just took out. I just it’s continued to just take off in ways that are are really wonderful.

“I feel like kind of my trajectory has been a series of these amazing, synchronistic moments that feel almost unbelievable. But it’s not unbelievable when you truly commit to following that feeling, which is hard because we have been trained all of the formula, do what you’re told, make people happy, make lots of money, and then you’ll be happy. And then it’s it, but it doesn’t work that way.” ~Amy Eliza Wong

So let me ask you this. You know, you talk about self relationships and results. Can you can you explain what that means? Especially especially since these three are kind of the core for your, you know, your belief system through all the research you’ve done, through what you’ve put together of for people, what is the journey you take people on so that they can get personal and professional, you know, enlightenment in their life, for want of a better word, since we’re in that realm of discussion, taught to talk to us all about that a little bit.

So people who aren’t kind of tapped into maybe the, you know, the spiritual side of themselves or maybe don’t understand that there are these kind of, you know, subliminal links between a lot of the things that we go through and that we feel are actually on purpose, even though we may not feel they are in the conventional sense of what we’ve been taught to be, you know, the links in our life.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for this question. I refer to this is what I call the fundamentals of thriving. And the best way to describe this is to use the metaphor of a big, beautiful oak tree. And, you know, when folks come to coaching, it’s because they want to take their life to the next level. They want to take themselves to the next level. They want to achieve something. They want to they want to break through into, you know, that potential. They know that they have.

And what it tends to feel and look like for a lot of people is if they if they think about themselves as a tree, it tends to just like, okay, well, what does this look like? What would that look like? And so we want to end up looking like this amazing, thriving oak tree where it’s just this beautiful canopy. And so the thinking tends to be, well, let me just prune all the leaves and make it look pretty. And so a lot of approaches, a lot of approaches to self-improvement are what are the behavior change like? What are the tweaks I need to make to kind of step into that change? What are the what are the behavior changes? What are the habit changes? What are the.

And so that to me is not a full picture, because if you want a genuinely thriving, beautiful tree, you can’t just prune the leaves. You got to look at the whole system. And so what I do with folks is, okay, well, so if you’ve got this whole tree, if that’s you, then we have to make sure that the roots are being watered. And then you’ve got a stable, stable, stable base from which you can grow and thrive. Now, that represents the relationship you have with yourself because that is absolutely everything. And this is so fundamental. Right.

And and it’s it’s really quite eye opening to folks because it feels kind of cliche. The relationship only serves self love. Like, we get it, but do we actually really get it? Do we know what that means? Most of us don’t. And the way I like to put this is the way you regard yourself. Whatever belief you have about who you are, how good enough you are, how complete you are, how smart you are, whatever it might be that self-perception forms the primary lens that you now look out through to the world. So the world that you see out there and what you see is not, that’s not objective. That is completely colored by this lens that is formed by the relationship you have with yourself.

“Whatever belief you have about who you are, how good enough you are, how complete you are, how smart you are, whatever it might be that self-perception forms, the primary lens that you now look out through to the world. So the world that you see out there and what you see is not, that’s not objective. That is completely colored by this lens that is formed by the relationship you have with yourself.” ~Amy Eliza Wong

And so, you know, like, oh, gosh, I could give you so many examples. But just for that, for brevity here, that relationship with self truly does impact every aspect of your experience. And we don’t really think about it that way. And if we genuinely want to thrive, we have to take a look at this because guess what? We get to pick what that relationship is. We get to choose. And a lot of us, one, don’t recognize that we’re a choice. And two, don’t know how to exercise that choice. So that’s the first part of of really looking at this bigger model.

The second is relationships. So the here and now we’ve got the trunk in relationship and it’s placement to everything else. Relationships are everything, too, because we don’t we don’t exist in a vacuum. We don’t create impact in a vacuum. It is all completely dependent upon our relationships with others. And in fact, and I talk about this in the book and we all kind of know this we’re hardwired for connection and belonging, and we are hardwired to be social creatures. So we have to factor in this relationship aspect. And so in my work, you know, in addition to this deeper perceptual stuff, I am kind of known as an expert, or at least someone who’s super passionate about all things communication, because communication is where relationships exist.

Absolutely.

And so all things conversational intelligence, neuroscience of trust to as we could get as specific as public speaking pitching presentation skills all of that really falls within my wheelhouse when I’m also doing coaching. So we got to look at that because that’s where the medium in which everything happens. And then we’ve got the results. Now that’s the canopy, right? So these are the things that we tend to see so that someone’s confidence or executive presence or authenticity, their values, their behaviors, their patterns. And so yeah, and we need to address that too. So that’s just your typical realm of coaching.

It’s like, okay, well, what changes do we need to make? How do we want to make them? How do you keep yourself accountable? What, you know, what what shifts have to happen at the doing level? So that’s the doing level. The roots is the being level. And this is in relationship with others. Now, when we look at that whole system and we find and we in, we look for the patterns and we essentially achieve congruency and make coherence. This vision we have for ourselves and what’s true, that’s when all of a sudden, oh my gosh, my state of being is like, this is amazing. That’s thriving.

Right. And that’s like the first word on your website in big, bold white writing. I love it.

Yes, it is.

So if anyone doesn’t know what Amy’s brand is about is all the things that it takes for you to thrive within the ideology of multifaceted communications through all the research and all the exponential life journey that she’s lived as well.

I want to ask you this, Amy. What kinds of transformations for those people who don’t quite get it? And what I want to kind of I want to bring them to to where we’re at with this conversation. So what kinds of transformations have you seen happen that best illustrate how impactful going through this transformation journey is like?

Can you maybe give us one example that just really always kind of comes for you that will help people kind of bridge that gap between having first come across this idea? Yeah, okay. I get it. I get how this can help me.

Yeah, absolutely. So let me go back to this idea that everything that we want is because we want, it because we think it’s going to make us feel a certain way. And so I’m pretty clear and this is an opinion, but I’m pretty clear that all of us want a state of freedom, peace, of mind, fulfillment and joy. And there’s we can add in a bunch of other stuff in there, but everybody comes to me because they want to feel at peace with what they’re up to in the world.

“Everything that we want is because we want, it because we think it’s going to make us feel a certain way. And so I’m pretty clear and this is an opinion, but I’m pretty clear that all of us want a state of freedom, peace, of mind, fulfillment and joy.” ~Amy Eliza Wong

They want to feel complete with who they are and what they’re creating. And you know, for most folks, particularly the ambitious driven professionals, we get addicted to this hyper achieving. I got to keep going. I got to keep going because this set of conditions is just not enough. I need the next, I need the promotion, I need the next. I need and own my own business. I need. And so we we we don’t know how to be at peace with what is we want to keep going. And so.

Why are you describing me Amy?

Well, you know, it’s everyone. It’s I think it’s it’s again, it’s it has to do with our educational system. I think for it’s what we get indoctrinated into. It’s like write the formula and then you’re going to be happy. And so we keep placing our happiness outside of ourselves, thinking it’s going to be in the final set of conditions, you know, that we accumulate. But, you know, so considering that, you know, I’m thinking, of course, I have so many amazing examples, but I’ll keep it kind of general. You know, you’ve got a you’ve got a senior leader, you’ve got an executive or anyone who initially comes and says, I, I want to feel like I’ve arrived. I want to feel like I want to have a seat at the table. I want to feel like my voice matters. I want to know that I’m having impact. I want to really leave a legacy here. I want to be super successful because I’m not quite where I want to be. Okay. So that’s the initial ask.

And so in working together, what we start to recognize is that they’re trying to fill a hole that can’t be filled with stuff. But they don’t know that they’re trying to fill a hole that has everything to do with the relationship they have with themselves. And so fundamentally, it starts with, well, do you know yourself as whole incomplete, or are you holding on to this idea that you’re lacking in some way, that you’re not as good as the others, that you’re not as competent as people think? So this is where imposter syndrome comes from. Or we talk about that quite a bit. And so it first starts with, Well, what is this relationship I have with myself?

And I guarantee you 100% of the time our need to continually achieve stuff is this fallacy. It’s just it’s this false thinking that when I finally go public, let’s say. I’m going to be free. I’m going to be free from the inner opposition that plagues me. About how I haven’t arrived. About how I’m not good enough. About how I’m not as cool as those people as. Are we finally free to just be present and enjoy my kids and enjoy my spouse? But that’s not true. But essentially, what we’re what we’re seeking is. This wholeness within ourselves. Because when we. Here’s a great example. You know, have you ever looked at a two year old or a three, maybe even a three or four year old? And those, you know, watching children at that age, it’s isn’t it the most delightful thing?

It really is.

And, you know, here’s why. Because here they are, they’re stage in development. They know themselves as unconditionally, whole and complete. They don’t have this self-perception of, I’m not good enough. I’m of lack, I’m incompetent, I’m a loser. I’m not lovable. They don’t have that. They haven’t developed that yet. So with this unconditional knowing of completeness, now they have when they know that they don’t, their lens isn’t conditional. So when they look at it, the world stuff is just stuff. It’s not proof that they’re not good enough. Do you get that? This is so important? If you know yourself as unconditionally whole and complete the stuff out there is not proof that you’re not enough. But if you are worried that you’re not good enough, then everything else out there is evidence for or against being good enough. And so you are free. That is the freedom people want.

Freedom for stuff to just be stuff. So we look at these children and they can dance and sing with boogers in their nose and their feet and they’re dressed all funny and they just don’t care because they are not worried about other people’s judgment because they know themselves as only. Now, I’m not advocating for us to go and sing with boogers in our noses and dress funny. But as adults we want that state of freedom back and we think that it’s in achieving the stuff that’s finally going to get us to that place. But that’s the trap, because the more you keep achieving, the more and more you’re solidifying this relationship of lack anyway. There’s so much to this conversation. Well I break it down in the book really logically.

“As adults we want that state of freedom back and we think that it’s in achieving the stuff that’s finally going to get us to that place. But that’s the trap, because the more you keep achieving, the more and more you’re solidifying this relationship of lack anyway.” ~Amy Eliza Wong

Yeah, absolutely. And that’s where we’re going to go next. But before we do, I want to close this part off by asking you if anybody wants to work with you, wants to work through some of the things that you have to offer here, where are we sending them to?

I definitely recommend reading the book because the book is going back to your original question, where the book came from. I knew exactly what this book needed to be in 2014, but I also knew I wasn’t ready to put it in book form because I was still accumulating the research and the stories and the client stories.

It is such a comprehensive roadmap and it’s step by step taking people through what I’m talking about here with the self relationship results. Now, I actually don’t reference the fundamentals of thriving in the book. I’m simply going by these five choices because, on its own, these five choices are independent. And if you take any one of them on you take all five.

You’re challenging me now. I need to take all five on. Tell me what they are.

And so I’d say read the book because the book is at the heart of . . . It is a way to integrate much of the teachings in the work that I do with clients on a one-on-one basis now to work. Primarily I’m working a lot with organizations and I work with leaders and teams and so for companies, I’ll come in and I’ll work with their leadership teams to really transform all aspects of their ability to connect, navigate and then thrive with one another. And it starts with the roots and then it goes outward. But there are many other options. And so I always encourage people to reach out. So going to my website, alwaysonpurpose.com and taking a look and then sending an inquiry.

Perfect. You heard it right here guys. You just have to go to the website alwaysonpurpose.com. Did I get that right?

That’s right. That is okay.

Okay, wonderful. It’s all there. The ecosystem is all there. I have to go check it out. I really encourage you to do so because I’ve been there and that’s what intrigued me to have this conversation with Amy. So without further ado, we’re going to dive right into that book. My first question I got to ask you this, because I’m really curious. There it is guys. For anyone that is watching this, take a look. That’s the cover. And I love that you have the flower at the bottom. It’s what Saraswati Matarji always sits on in Hinduism, by the way. And she is the goddess of knowledge.

Oh, I love that.

The wisdom. So you didn’t even know you did that but you did.

But I did not know that. Well, here’s it’s an amazing story. So my amazing graphic designer developed this in 2010. So my logo, I’ve had this and this has been just fundamental to Always On Purpose. And I didn’t recognize this until after I got my book published that this is so funny. So the book is five Deliberate Choices to Realize Feminine Joy. There are five petals on this. I was like, that’s amazing.

I’m going a bit off track. But I’ve got to ask you this. Does the number five show up for you in different aspects of your life? Is there are five in your numerology somewhere?

You know what? I wish I knew that answer.

Okay, go find out, because I’m curious. Let me know.

I don’t know. There’s nothing really significant about the number five. And it’s funny because I originally had more choices that I was going to break down. Once you sit down and start writing your book, what you think it’s going to be actually ends up being quite different than what you thought it was going to be. And that’s the beautiful part of it. And I didn’t originally sit down and say, okay, I’m going to write this book about five choices. It was going to be more than that. And it was in that year-long process of writing the book that actually there’s really only five here, and that’s what this absolutely needs to be. So it was really quite organic.

I love it. And can you can you tell everybody what those five aspects are? And then I want to go back to the thing that I was curious about. But first, since we’re here, let’s just tell everyone.

Okay, one through five, the first one you heard, which is feel it out, don’t figure it out. The second one, and this is everyone’s favorite, is there is no way things or you should be period. So the title of the chapter I love this so much everyone does the title is called I should you not. And then the third choice is that it’s always working out for you. And there’s so much wisdom in that one. The fourth is you are already whole and complete. So that speaks to what we were talking about.

We’re trying to achieve conditions and change conditions and accumulate proof in order to find that completeness. But really the biggest perceptual shift is just a desire to choose to know that you’re already whole and complete. And then the big one, the kicker is you have to choose to know, not believe your worth. And so in this one, I dove into the very profound difference between believing and knowing and what what shifts when you get the difference, and then how you’re able to unlock true freedom when you can shift from believing to knowing. So that’s a fun conversation. All five work together in this incredibly wonderful way. But again, any one of these on its own is can be pretty powerful.

The thing that I wanted to ask you, the curious thing is and it’s just so small, that it almost sounds insignificant after what you’ve just been telling us that’s so profound. And it’s this: ‘Living On Purpose’ is the title of your book. But the title of your brand is Always On Purpose.

Here’s the truth. I really wanted the book to be called Always on Purpose. And the publisher was like, “We don’t think that’s a great name. And so they were like, “It’s not that it’s bad, but it’s not as clear about what the book’s about. Let’s come up with a different title.” And I was like, “I really want it to be Always On Purpose, but okay, I’ll trust you.” So we went through a re-titling process and it was either going to be . . . And I’m glad we didn’t go with this. I thought it was just catchy, The Purpose Paradigm or Living On Purpose.

If I were to say the purpose paradigm, it implies purpose in a way that I’m not using purpose. And so it needs to be on purpose, which is different than purpose as we tend to think about it. So that’s where we ended up. We landed on Living On Purpose. But I’m really excited about that, Raj, because I know what book number two is and that’s ‘Leading On Purpose’ because this is the more general living. And so now book number two, which the wheels are turning, now I’m able to do that. And so now everybody’s coming to me can you do a Parenting On Purpose? Can you do a Loving On Purpose?

Oh, my gosh, girl, you need to do all this because it all comes back round to this whole kind of ambiguous term that we all know, which is called communications. Yeah, it all comes back to that, right? I love it. And I love the whole idea around the tree and how you need to look at the tree that you are.

I love that you talked about that. I love that you are very, pun intended, on purpose with the words of the titles of your five concepts in the book. Oh, those titles alone. Maybe you want to read this book. And you know, and I have to say this because I’m such a wordsmith myself. Words are everything to me.

Oh, words create worlds.

Yes.

I mean, our language is what we . . . Things arise due to the words that we say, we think. I am 100 per cent with you. And I’m such a stickler with this, especially with my kids. I’m like, “What did you just say to yourself? Back that up. What did you just say? Let’s let’s come up with something else. That’s not empowering at all.”

I love it.

So I’m right there with you.

What do you hope that people will get out of reading and working through your book? What’s your big thing?

I’m just going to go with what hit me right now. Have you heard the quote, Viktor Frankl’s quote, I must say this quote, three times in a week. So Viktor Frankl was the Austrian psychologist, Holocaust survivor who wrote Man’s Search for Meaning. And his quote is this: “Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.

“Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” ~Viktor Frankl

What I love about that quote is it captures so perfectly this superpower of choice that we all have, but we forget. And it’s easy to because the outside world is very compelling. And so I use this metaphor where, if you’re done with today. Today’s Friday, let’s say it’s been a long day. You sit down, you turn on the TV, you just want to chill out. Now, let’s imagine it’s before streaming. And so do you remember cable back in the day? And so the TV and whatever the TV’s on, it’s the channel it was on. That’s what’s on. So like that.

Girl, I go back as far as black and white TV, okay?

So I know we’re on the same page here. Well, with this whole thing where when we sit down to watch TV, if we turn on the TV and up pops say horror and we don’t want to watch horror, what do we do? Well, we change the channel because we know that doesn’t make us feel good. And so we do this with the TV. But we don’t do this with our own mindset, our own lens, our own inner dialogue. So what we tend to live is sitting down, turning on horror and going, “Oh, I’m feeling so groovy today. Oh, I can’t do it.” And we’re stuck on that channel. We forget that we have a remote control.

And so what I’m hoping that this book illuminates for folks is that we are empowered with this amazing thing called choice, and it’s way more profound than we think. And it’s actually a lot more simple than we realize. And through this book, I present a lot of logic in order to help people get to that place where they can access choice. Because it’s one thing to know you have a choice, it’s another to exercise it. And I’m very clear about the difference because I know that’s a big hang up for folks. And so in this book, I really I made it a huge part of the book to make choice accessible, make a different choice accessible, the choice that serves us.

“It’s one thing to know you have a choice, it’s another to exercise it. And I’m very clear about the difference because I know that’s a big hang up for folks. And so in this book, I really I made it a huge part of the book to make choice accessible, make a different choice accessible, the choice that serves us.” ~Amy Eliza Wong

I love everything about that. Amy, whose the book for.

It’s for you Raj.

It’s definitely for me. I want a signed copy.

Oh, I’m popping one in the mail this evening. You got it.

Love it.

So the book is for, as is true for any book, it’s not for everybody. What is clear about this book? I always say it’s for the ambitious, growth-oriented individual who is somewhat self-aware, who is aware that it could be better. It could be I’m searching for something, and I get I’m going about it probably in a not ideal way. And so this book is for that person who genuinely wants to take their life to the next level, but gets that how they’re going about it probably isn’t going to get them there, but they don’t quite know what to do about that.

And it’s also for the individual who is willing to take responsibility for their life. It’s the individual that says, I’m the one that’s responsible for the quality of my experience, which is due to the mindset that I hold. And so I’m willing to shift at that level. Now, there has to be a willingness there. And when that’s there and you come across this book, I believe magic can happen.

I feel that this book is for everyone out there who thinks that this book is not for them. I really do. I feel that this book is obviously for someone like me because I’m perpetually on the journey of self enlightenment and whatever that may mean as a definition for me, changes as I go through life. Such is the experience of life, right? But, I honestly feel that the people that will have the biggest breakthroughs, the biggest aha moments, the biggest angst that you were talking about earlier. I think those people are going to be the ones that absolutely think that they don’t need this book. So if you’re that person and you’re feeling like, oh, my God this just sounds like another woo woo attempt at woo woo wooing my life. Go get the book. And, Amy, where can they go grab it? Let’s tell everyone that.

Thank you for that and to be very like, woo, woo, sure. But I do provide a fair amount of of research. And I want to back up a lot of what I’m saying.

That part of your brain is clearly, obviously very well developed. You mastered music, the degrees, everything. So I don’t think anyone can in any way not know that this is going to come fully backed up.

Oh, well, thank you.

Absolutely. So where can they grab this book?

So you can get the book on Amazon. It’s an Amazon bestseller which is amazing which I’m super woo woo excited about. It just was released Tuesday and it’s been doing so well. It was released on Tuesday. So this is such a timely conversation.

I am just going to tell everyone I’m recording this with Amy the Tuesday before the Wednesday that we’re launching this. So this is right now in your lives. So go and grab this book. Let’s make it a bestseller on other lists as well. We want to do that. Everybody needs this.

And I feel that as adults we can go in and we can read this and unpack what’s happening with us and how we’re relating to these five different, for want of a better word, paradigm shifts. But I feel that there’s also a diluted version of this that can be translated over to our kids. We can already start training our kids into learning how to put self first and what that needs to look like.

You are making my heart sing, Raj. I mean there is no more important question or conversation than starting as early as we can to help our little ones establish an authentic, honest, truthful relationship with themselves that they are already whole and complete. Because when we do that and more of our children know then the world really, genuinely does start to become a healed place. I think about this all the time.

So do I. Absolutely. Yeah.

So the book is on Amazon. And I’d say it’s in all bookstores. So walk into any bookstore.

Perfect and grab it whether it’s digital . . . and let me just ask you so hardback, paperback, audio and all?

Kindle, so audiobook, and I got to narrate.

You’re Going to hear this lady’s voice. You know, it’s going to be like super energetic, super feeling everything, which is what the whole conversation today has been about. I love it.

Feeling it. Well, the best part. So a little teaser here. Chapter 13, I interview an old client of mine because she’s been through this process. So to answer that question at earlier, what happens when you do this? It’s a whole interview between her and me about what’s life like now that you’ve done this. And so when we were getting ready to narrate this, I was narrating this book.

I thought, wait a minute, how am I going to do two voices? So I just had Megan come and read her part. And so I told them and they were like, “You know, we’ve never done that before.” Really, you haven’t done that? They’re like, “Well, let’s do it.” So Chapter 13, it’s literally a conversation between us and it’s her voice. Megan comes in and she reads it. So it’s the two of us in Chapter 13. It’s delightful.

That is so palpable. It’s so real. Like such a realness to what you just shared. That chapter alone is one that I need to go listen to because I conversations better way to authenticate a person’s belief system than hearing someone who went through the system.

So it’s really important that people do really the audio. I think people need to get the audio as well as the written version because all versions have a different sense and a feeling that you get around than you do when you sit there and read. And the read is important. I always say this, always get both. The read is important because you can go in there and underline and you can make notes and all that lovely stuff.

The hardback or the hardcover, they do have charts and some graphs and there’s some lovely visuals. So that’s really helpful. The audio version I’m very excited about just released yesterday and the Kindle version is available too.

I’m so super excited. So for anyone out there who after this conversation with Amy and Me who’s sitting on the fence of their life. What would you say to them?

Oh, get excited, because as uncomfortable as that feels, that just means you’re on the edge of transformation, and that means that you are on the brink of growth. And so rather than meet this moment with anxiety, get excited that change is about to happen. And if you’re ready for the tools for change in order to harness that growth and truly live a life on purpose with meaning and fulfillment and joy, then grab the books that’ll help you.

“Rather than meet this moment with anxiety, get excited that change is about to happen. And if you’re ready for the tools for change in order to harness that growth and truly live a life on purpose with meaning and fulfillment and joy, then grab the books that’ll help you.” ~Amy Eliza Wong

Absolutely. And I feel that the book would be a great lead magnet into the ecosystem that is Amy’s world for you to then dive into maybe working with her, maybe getting to that next level that you need to get to if you feel that you need assistance to be able to walk across that bridge. I really do believe that that’s where you need to go. And again, Amy, give everyone your website address.

My website is alwaysonpurpose.com. I’m also pretty active on LinkedIn. That’s really the only social platform I’m on. So LinkedIn, it’s @amyelizawong. If anyone wants to follow me there.

Perfect. Hang out with you on social and see what you’re up to. That sounds fabulous. So definitely I encourage everyone to just go hop on over there. And if you don’t have an account now, you have a reason to have one.

That’s right.

So, Amy, is there anything that we haven’t touched upon today that you feel people need to know about today’s topic? So let’s bring us back round full circle. And the topic is cutting edge strategies on how to live on purpose every day and in every circumstance.

My goodness, there is so much I would want to share in a brief moment. But I’ll leave it with this just because it’s going to be resonant with what we have been talking about. If we really want to start living on purpose, we can start with the question. What would be true right now and what would be possible right now if I genuinely knew myself to be totally and unconditionally whole and complete. Like what changes? And when you confront that question authentically, you’ll find that all of a sudden your perception shifts a little bit. Fear is different.

There really is no fear. Your thoughts, how you process something, how you might consider something, the options. The world starts to change a little bit. It’s subtle, but it’s really profound. And this might sound touchy feely. But this relationship we have with ourselves is so fundamental to the quality of our experience. I can’t stress that enough. So if we want to get to the heart of really, truly claiming the life we were born to live and live on purpose, we got to get right to the heart of the engine that gives rise to our reality. And that is how we relate to our own selves. So again, the question is what would be possible if I knew right now in this moment, if I truly were whole and complete.

Something to sit with guys? I love everything about that. And I’ve just got one final thing that I want to ask you, Amy, and it’s this. Any final words you’d like to be when watching, listening and reading this? You know, perhaps some words of inspiration that you haven’t already shared and you’ve shared an abundance of it today, maybe something from your life’s journey that you learned that is important for people to know.

This is a big one. This came up earlier today. It just comes up all the time. But I had mentioned growth. We’re always growing, whether we like it or not. And it’s the experiences that we are having that are catalyzing our growth in every moment. We tend to want to just focus on the stuff that we want, like the stuff we were planning for. Like I went off for this certification program I’m in. And the growth. The stuff that we want in our lives, we tend to just focus on that. So really what I want to leave with is there’s a whole category of stuff that’s unwanted. And so I tend to talk about this.

We either grow by accident, which is the stuff we didn’t want and grow on purpose. And so a lot of my work is focusing on how can we embrace the stuff that’s growth by accident and how do we relate to an excuse my life which should have life because work life is going to shit on you. That’s stuff is going to happen always. There is going to be stuff that you cannot plan for. There is going to be contrast in our lives. There are going to be traumas and tragedies and mistakes and regrets and failures. That’s just how it goes. And it’s I believe it’s because we’re in a universe of duality. That’s just how we operate.

But if we continue to push against the stuff we don’t want we eat up so much of our life force and we don’t extract the amazing gifts that come from the contrast. And so I would say, you know, as words of wisdom, I always say, you know, if you can decide that everything’s working out for you when that stuff hits you, which it will, it’s to always, what’s the gift in this? How is this actually contributing to my growth?

How might this be on purpose for my future vision that I am I’m intending to live into? Because, you know, how many times have we been in our now moment and look back and go, that was horrible. But if it wasn’t for that, I wouldn’t be here. So why not do that in our current state in a shit moment and be like, Wait a minute, you know, it’s a shit moment, but what if this is fertilizer, it’s manure and it’s seeding that.

I love that.

Yeah. And so it’s really how there’s a big opportunity in just letting things be as they are and committing to treating it as fertilizer instead of shit.

Living on purpose, guys. So important. So much has been unpacked today. Amy, you are such a gem. You’re a rock star. And I flipping love you and you have got to come back.

I’m coming back. I can’t wait. You are amazing Raj. This has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. I cannot wait for and its memorization.

I can’t either sweetheart. Really. That second book and and all the others that are going to come from it, all needs to happen. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming on.

Thank you. Thank you.

Guys. I really hope you got some real value from today’s show and will share it with everyone you know who you feel needs to get today’s learnings. And in my book is absolutely everyone that you care about.

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All right, guys, and I’ll see you next week for another invaluable episode packed with insights and learnings like we have today with Amy to help empower your work, your life and your spirit.

Take care, guys. I love you.

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